The Holy Spirit

[Colin]

I have oftened wondered why in Christadelphian public prayers that The Holy Spirit is rarely quoted. Does anybody know?

[glimmer]

Originally Posted by Colin

I have oftened wondered why in Christadelphian public prayers that The Holy Spirit is rarely quoted. Does anybody know?

"rarely quoted"? Do you mean why isn't the Holy Spirit mentioned much in public prayers?

[Rose Hardy]

Yes, I'm not sure where you're coming from either. Any chance you could elaborate? thanks

[Colin]

I apologise for being vague in my original question. I should also not have used the word Holy as it was not appropiate. I was moved to ask this question after reading the thread on difficulty in praying in public. I too have a difficulty in composing prayers and have often wanted to say something like " may the spirit of God be in us that we may bring unto others a better understanding of God's purpose". However i have not heard the word Spirit used in this way and wondered if i am missing some important point here.

[Rose Hardy]

Originally Posted by Colin

I was moved to ask this question after reading the thread on difficulty in praying in public. I too have a difficulty in composing prayers and have often wanted to say something like " may the spirit of God be in us that we may bring unto others a better understanding of God's purpose". However i have not heard the word Spirit used in this way and wondered if i am missing some important point here.

Personally I would have no problem hearing this said in a prayer. Actually I think its a lovely thought. i wonder if we dont mention the spirit of God because we are afraid of being associated with those who believe we have 'spirit gifts' . I'm not saying its a good reason, its probably a bad one, but it could be a reason.

[Flappie]

These are just my personal feelings, feel free to ignore them.

I prefer prayers to be directed at God in the second person, and I would find it a little strange to change that to the third person.

[Matt B]

I think a better way of saying this would be to ask God for His help as we study His Word. In this way we will be acknowledging the fact that we still have to put the effort in, but know that it is by God's power that we do things.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Rose Hardy

Personally I would have no problem hearing this said in a prayer. Actually I think its a lovely thought. i wonder if we dont mention the spirit of God because we are afraid of being associated with those who believe we have 'spirit gifts' . I'm not saying its a good reason, its probably a bad one, but it could be a reason.

I thought you have "spirit gifts". 1 Corinthians 12:

[Flappie]

Originally Posted by Anointed to serve

I thought you have "spirit gifts". 1 Corinthians 12:

Had is the word you're looking for.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Flappie

Had is the word you're looking for.

If you had the Spirit gifts, how did you loose them.

[Matt B]

I think Flappie is making the point that the Spirit gifts have ceased to be available to people now. 1 Corinthians 13 speaks clearly about the ending of these gifts after the apostolic times. They were for a specific purpose and that purpose is done, so now they don't exist.

I'm sure Flappie can correct me if I'm wrong

[Flappie]

Originally Posted by Matt B

I think Flappie is making the point that the Spirit gifts have ceased to be available to people now. 1 Corinthians 13 speaks clearly about the ending of these gifts after the apostolic times. They were for a specific purpose and that purpose is done, so now they don't exist.

I'm sure Flappie can correct me if I'm wrong

Sounds about right.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Matt B

I think Flappie is making the point that the Spirit gifts have ceased to be available to people now. 1 Corinthians 13 speaks clearly about the ending of these gifts after the apostolic times. They were for a specific purpose and that purpose is done, so now they don't exist.

I'm sure Flappie can correct me if I'm wrong

1 Corinthian 13: 8, Say's knowledge shall vanish, Has knowledge vanishished??. Danial say's "Knowledge shall increase in the last days, not vanish.

1 Cor 13;10, Tell us when the gifts and tongues will vanish, According to the original text, "When the perfect one, [Jesus] brings in His Kingdom". In other words, When Jesus comes back.

Look at Ephesians 3: 21, "Unto Him be glory in the Church by christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, WORLD WITHOUT END.

We are still in the ALL AGES, and the world hasn't ended yet.

Matthew 28; 20 Jesus told His disciples to teach people what he comanded them. some of the things He told them was to, Heal the sick, cleanse the leper, cast out devils, raise and the dead, Then Jesus said to them, I am with you unto the end of the world [age]. well to my knowledge the world hasn't ended yet.
beside this, If you to look at the Church history, you would see that signs & wonders were still happening after the so-called last apostle died.
In over thirty years of my Ministry, I have seen God do mighty things through me. SO YOU HAVE COME TO LATE TO TELL ME IT'S NOT FOR TODAY.

[Flappie]

Originally Posted by Anointed to serve

According to the original text, "When the perfect one, [Jesus] brings in His Kingdom". In other words, When Jesus comes back.

You should really learn to differentiate between what the original says, and how you interpret that, there are some significant differences. Neither Jesus nor the kingdom are mentioned in that verse, and there is no indication that "the perfect", or "that which is perfect" is talking about a person.

I just checked 30 different translations, and none agree with that translation, the most liberal translation (the NLT in this case) has "But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless." Even the message, which can't really be considered a translation, has "But when the complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled."

Please stop pretending that you're an expert in Hebrew and Greek.

[Jon Davies]

Originally Posted by Anointed to serve

Then Jesus said to them, I am with you unto the end of the world [age]. well to my knowledge the world hasn't ended yet.

Just a quick point on this one. The Greek phrase for “end of the world” is sunteleia aionos and means end of the age , “close of the age” (RSV). In all six occurrences it refers to end of Jewish age – Matthew 13 vs. 39, 40, 49, 24 vs. 3, 28 vs. 20, Heb 9 vs. 26. This was in AD 70.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Flappie

You should really learn to differentiate between what the original says, and how you interpret that, there are some significant differences. Neither Jesus nor the kingdom are mentioned in that verse, and there is no indication that "the perfect", or "that which is perfect" is talking about a person.

I just checked 30 different translations, and none agree with that translation, the most liberal translation (the NLT in this case) has "But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless." Even the message, which can't really be considered a translation, has "But when the complete arrives, our incompletes will be canceled."

Please stop pretending that you're an expert in Hebrew and Greek.

[1] Are you complete yet? NO, so we still need the gifts until we are complete. Jesus is coming back for a glorious church, Eph 5: 27, when Jesus comes we will be just like him , 1 John 3: 2.

[2] quote from the Greek, "compleated revelation of God's will and ways, in the hereafter". A look at the scripture in it's context shows that to be true.
v12, Now I know in part, but THEN shall I know even as I am known.
Note the word, "THEN", [when the gifts will be done away], WHEN??, when we are know as we are known.

[3] Never look at new versions of the Bible, there is a lot of bad translations.

[4]The word "Glorious" in Eph 5: 27, Is a Church doing outstanding miracles and great works of power.

[5] I will stick with the truth Thanks.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Jon Davies

Just a quick point on this one. The Greek phrase for “end of the world” is sunteleia aionos and means end of the age , “close of the age” (RSV). In all six occurrences it refers to end of Jewish age – Matthew 13 vs. 39, 40, 49, 24 vs. 3, 28 vs. 20, Heb 9 vs. 26. This was in AD 70.

The saying, End of the word in Heb 9: 26. means.
"The end of God's plan of Salvation, When Jesus died the sacrifice for the worlds sin was compleated".
The other scriptures that you gave have nothing to do with quote," Close of the age". It is the END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT NOW.
or the end of this dispensation, " The dispensation of grace".

[Matt B]

The references that Jon gave were all relevant. We can only understand the Word of God by examining the ways in which God uses words and phrases, if the phrase 'close of the age' means AD70 in all the passages which Jon referenced (as it clearly does), which are all the passages in which it occurs, then it means that in Matthew 28 as well. This is how God's word works and how we should study it.

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Matt B

The references that Jon gave were all relevant. We can only understand the Word of God by examining the ways in which God uses words and phrases, if the phrase 'close of the age' means AD70 in all the passages which Jon referenced (as it clearly does), which are all the passages in which it occurs, then it means that in Matthew 28 as well. This is how God's word works and how we should study it.

The problem with you belief is, It isn't true. How do you get that idea, Not from the Bible.
The very scriptres the Jon gave proved him and you wrong. what you and Jon are saying is pure speculation, because you know the truth proves you wrong

[Anointed to serve]

Originally Posted by Matt B

I think Flappie is making the point that the Spirit gifts have ceased to be available to people now. 1 Corinthians 13 speaks clearly about the ending of these gifts after the apostolic times. They were for a specific purpose and that purpose is done, so now they don't exist.

I'm sure Flappie can correct me if I'm wrong

In a previous post I told you what 1 Corinthiand 13: 8--12 means.
The Bible says, "Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established" can you give me another two, or at least one scripture that prove the gifts have been done away.
I don't mean by your speculations, I mean by Biblical truth.