Appropriate Attire...

[sally]

I think God sees us as who we are not what we wear. It should be totally a matter of conscience what one chooses to wear. Is it a sin to pray in the shower? No!

[steveyb3]

I think wearing something different to the meeting from what you usually wear is more important than wearing something smart.

People always quote the thing about the change of garments which is right. But nowhere does it say he changed his garments and put on a four hundred pound Armani suit.

I'm not baptized but when I go to the morning meeting I wear something smarter than jeans and t-shirt so I don't offend. I personally am much more comfortable in clothes I can be myself in. I feel sortof fake if that makes sense when I wear a suit.

A big issue is people who can't afford fancy clothes. I heard one story of someone who wanted to come to the meeting but didn't because he couldn't afford a suit.

[sally]

Jesus never wore a suit!!!
He couldn't afford it
It is more the meaning than themotif I think

[glimmer]

funny story...

A few weeks after being baptized I was asked to fill-in on a Sunday morning, to do the scripture reading before the exhortation, because the reading brother for the meeting was not in attendance. I willingly agreed. Before the meeting started an arranging board brother came over to me and told me to put my jacket on before going up to the platform to do the reading. He said it was "standard" for anyone going on the platform during meeting to have a jacket on. I told him my jacket was a jacket for outside and not a suit jacket. He said it didn't matter. I submitted to him and put the jacket (leather) on. After the Meeting people were asking me why I wore a leather jacket to do the reading. I told them the story and they all got a good laugh out of it. They told me that it USE TO BE a policy, but not anymore, although some brethren like to think it still is. Anyway, no harm done, and some people still joke about it by asking me if I'm going to wear my leather jacket when I do my first exhortation.

[Nathanael]

Good discussion here. Another interesting point to make is that dressing up can also be distracting - particularly big hats or power suits for women, and lots of brothers in the congregation are wearing dark suits, white shirts and dark colour ties.

I still find it incredible that in some ecclesias "shirt and tie is the minimum"!

We should be dressing modestly and sombrely and remembering that God looks on the heart, not on the outward man appearance. In this context, plain t-shirts or sweaters should be ok. 'Plain' and 'simple' attire should be the order of the day, which extends to head coverings. What we wear on the top half is more visible to our brethren and sisters than our bottom half, unless individuals are particularly distracted and not paying attention to whats being said.

I understand the argument about skirts vs trousers for sisters, but in many ways trousers are more modest than skirts! Having said that, and I can't speak from personal experience(!) skirts would seem more comfortable than most trousers? Ultimately, we should neither wish to offend, nor be easily offended. In my opinion, labels, logos and discernible lettering should be avoided, and bright colours too.

[Insearchof]

It has been written elsewhere on the Forum, about the poor reception some have received when visiting Ecclesias. Because in some cases by the way they have been
dressed, It would be better if members of Ecclesias, took more to heart the words of
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jam 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jam 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Erik.

[David]

Clothing is an interesting discussion, sometimes we forget how punctilious the priest had to be in the clothes they wore at God's command, even down to the type of underpants Ex28v42.

They were made for glory and beauty Ex28v2.

I;m not advocating we copy the linen ephod, but maybe the issue is more important than a mere it doesn't matter.

We are called to be circumcised in the heart, therefore the garments fo holiness and beauty that we were must be in the way we reflect the character of God.


I tend, as its my working clothes, wear a suit, because i feel God is worth at least as much repect as my work, and the choice of clothes we wear sometimes reflects what we think, not always, I've known people come in overalls, having left work and come straight to the meeting, and by this they honour God. Others feel that a more relaxed dress code is allowable, and I can't disagree, but everything must be done to God, Romans 14 discusses this in resepect to holy days, but maybe dress is a similiar issue, some dress up for the Lord, other don't dress up to the Lord, but what ever we do we do it for the Lord.

The other injunction is not cause our brother or sister to stumble, and therefore we must nbe careful in all things do things that won't affect anothers faith in a bad way, if that means for the love of someone for whom christ died, I have to wear a tie on a hot day I will do it, not because it is required by God, but my love for my brothers and sisters is. Using the same arguement is my wearing a tie caused another to judge me unecessarily the I should take it off. i am my brother and sisters keeper.

D

[hurricanehattie]

To me it is more important for people to be at our meetings, than worry about not attending as they dont have the "correct" attire. It is the inward appearance that matters, and as long as we are not offending anyone with what we wear, that's cool. HH

[Insearchof]

The First Christadelphian Meeting I ever attended, The Sister who had told me about the
meeting and who had invited me to go, said that I should wear a Suit with Tie.
When I explained to her that I did not own a Suit and Tie, nor any other clothes than
what she was seeing me in, first she could not believe it, and she was invited to come
to my home to see for herself, on seeing it to be true, she said well they will not receive
you into the hall in your working clothes, but I do so want you to come.
Two weeks later I went with her, she had altered a pair of her husbands trousers to fit
me and loaned me one of his Jackets and a Tie.
Not many would do that, she had a real Christlike Heart, but sadly like many other
Christlike Christadelphians, she fell foul of the AB's over something and was withdrawn
from, she did however get back in fellowship with another ecclesia (of the same Group)
some miles away, but I have never seen her again since the day she was Put-Out.
Erik.

[glimmer]

Originally Posted by Insearchof

she had a real Christlike Heart, but sadly like many other Christlike Christadelphians, she fell foul of the AB's over something and was withdrawn from, she did however get back in fellowship with another ecclesia (of the same Group) some miles away, but I have never seen her again since the day she was Put-Out. Erik.

I think most Christadelphians are like this woman you describe and would accept you. Your bad experience with this group of Christadelphians is the "exception" and not then "norm" within Christadelphia in my opinion. Most AB's are NOT as you describe.

[gaz]

This is an interesting article about interview clothing.

It's strange, an interview is one of the few times when I feel wearing a suit & tie is absolutely essential, and really that is only because I feel I will be looked down on if I don't.

I guess the best way to look at it from an ecclesial point of view is that we shouldn't try to go out of our way to offend others, but conversely those who are being offended should be asking themselves why they feel offended.

[Bry]

I am fortunate to belong to an ecclesia that does not seem to have any laid down dress code. A brother may well turn up in jeans and an open neck shirt, a sister wearing decent trousers; and I vary acccording to the weather.

When I was a working chap, I had a range of suits, from lightweights for summer to heavier for cooler times of the year. On my early retirement I decided never to wear a suit again and gave them away - also I threw out most of my ties. I kitted up with casual jackets and trousers.

One day a visiting brother did remark to me that I did not look like a Christadelphian, which has always left me puzzled. Firstly, I have no idea how a Christadelphian brother should look, and secondly, I think myself being colour blind may have caused his point of view!

I could not afford to throw out my pre-Christadelphian clothing and shop for a perhaps duller range of jackets. I only have two normal jackets, (and a nice zipper jacket) one a navy blue and the one I was wearing when he must have been dazzled by what I thought is a black & white small dog-tooth patterned jacket. However, when mentioning this to my wife, she told me it has a bright red large check as well, which I had no idea was there, I just don't see it. I have read somewhere that us colour blind chaps see the world rather dull compared to others; in other words, if I turn up in a bright yellow jacket with bright blue spots, it's hardly my fault, is it!

Should I join a colour blind ecclesia? Or perhaps ask the AB's to only ask colour blind brothers to visit?



PS: I copied this from an entry I made on another forum on the same subject

[Chester Draws]

Revisiting this thread:

There are some definite NOs

1) Costly items
2) Gold
3) Pearls
4) Platted hair

1 Timothy 2:9-10
In like manner also, that women adorn (garnish! Luke 21:5; 1 Peter 3:5)
themselves in modest (related to kosmos in terms of ordered) apparel,
with shamefacedness (see Heb 12:28 reverence)
and sobriety (to do with speech and attitude of mind, Acts 26:25; 1 Tim 2:15);
not with broided hair, (platted as in the crown of thorns (John 19:2)
or gold,
or pearls,
or costly array
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1 Peter 3:2-5
(speaking about wives – women)
Whose adorning let it not be that outward (see Matt 23:25 – smartening up the outside)
of plaiting the hair, (tangling – not the same as platting in 1Tim)
and of wearing of gold,
or of putting on of apparel; (Col 3:12)
but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price (same as costly array in 1 Tim). For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

The point seems to be not having a focus on the (costly, expensive) and outward, which perishes, but the inward which is of great price to God.

How do (sisters) feel about the NO items?

[RichLeamington]

Relevant to this post is that on the confirmation letter for Rugby Youth Weekend pointed out that people must wear appropriate attire.

[RichLeamington]

Originally Posted by Chester Draws

Revisiting this thread:

There are some definite NOs

1) Costly items
2) Gold
3) Pearls
4) Platted hair

Maybe back when it was written those items had different connertations. For instance both my parents wear gold (rings not clothing, lol) to the meeting and lots of sisters wear pearls (fake or otherwise) I am sure. Platted hair is worn by a fair number of sisters I am sure of too although I can't say I study such things! Perhaps it was due to the fact that in the time when Timothy was written gold was not all that readily available and when it was it was only worn as a 'bling' factor, same with pearls.

[Steven]

Bro. Harry Tennant in his "Ye Servants of the Lord" section on doorkeepers fails to mention James 2:6 instruction for doorkeepers not to do clothing checks, but nevertheless bro Harry makes it clear that the job of doorman has always been to make visitors (baptised or not) welcome and it's always been mainstream Christadelphian teaching and practice that matters of dress are matters best left to individual conscience. See also Sept97 editorial in the Christadelphian.

[Peter]

A few years ago i came across some articles on the net which explained the origins of many Christian customs -including the ol' Sunday Best. From memory ithe idea got going in the mid 19th century. It's worth tracking down again for it truly shows this whole thing about dress standards is human tradition and commandments of men. It's a furphy. The sooner we move to the true position the better.

[Rich]

It's hard to think of a "true position" when it comes to dress codes. In fact if we try and aim for a true position then we might end up just as legalistic as those we accuse of being Pharisees by insisting on Sunday best. Exchanging one form for another is pointless.

I have been a member of ecclesias where suit and tie is expected, ecclesias which are more business casual, ecclesias where there is no dress code and, for instance, the speaker would wear shorts and t-shirt, and ecclesias where if you wore a suit and tie you'd stand out like a sore thumb because nobody else could even imagine having enough money to buy that sort of clothing. I have personally gone from thinking that you're not a proper Christadelphian unless you wear a suit and tie to being anti-suit and tie to now in the happy position of not worrying about it.

The NT is pretty simple - be modest and don't be extravagant. Which is more or less saying the same thing because sometimes wearing a suit and tie can be immodest (like in the last example I gave above). If by our clothing we stand out then we've probably missed the point.

But really the time spent on this subject misses the point of true religion. We spend so much time analyzing the nooks and crannies of form trying to get it "right" (or trying to point out where it's "wrong") that we forget that form is simply a symptom of culture, tradition and doctrinal understanding. If we try and change the form by the culture, tradition and doctrinal understanding is unaffected then it becomes a pointless exercise.

Far better to concentrate on weightier matters. Form will follow.

[Peter]

It's hard to think of a "true position" when it comes to dress codes. In fact if we try and aim for a true position then we might end up just as legalistic as those we accuse of being Pharisees by insisting on Sunday best. Exchanging one form for another is pointless.

Rich
I don't know how you managed to write what you did based on the phrase "true position". I am not a legalist - far from it. The "true position" if anything is the following:

• Believers decide what to wear based on their conscience to their Lord
• Others in the ecclesia respect that conscience and say nothing unless they really are in the view it is immodest.

It's as simple as that. There really is no position to be had. There is far too much made of this
question. I say let's just get on with what matters.
Personally I don't care whether a person wears a suit or denim jeans and runners. Cheers

[David]

I think on this point comes the advice that Paul gave those believers in Rome concerning the Jewish holy days: Ro 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
and 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

In the end whether we suit up or not, see the way we dress as the effort being a sign of respect ort not, if it is done in faith then it is right in the sight of God, or as God through Paul says in the same chapter
4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

To which I will add I do find the judgement that people who insist on sunday best are being pharasical, for if we do are we not saying that such people are hypocrites, play acting at their faith, and having meant many, they seem to me to be honest brothers and sisters trying their best to worship God in spirit and in truth.

D