Winepress

[Peter]

This is one of the trickiest verses in the Book of Revelation:
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
I've got my ideas about what it means but I was hoping that some of you might have an excellent new insight.
What is the city?
What is meant by the horse's bridles?
Furlongs = stadia; but why stadia?
Why 1600?

[Peter]

Anybody out there?

[steveyb3]

I don't know what it means

Concerning "city", I believe there are two cities mentioned in Revelation, a Godly one and an unGodly one, the Jerusalem and the Babylon if you will. The contrast is there to compare the city of sin and the city of God.

I'll have a look at this more tonight God willing. Have you got a Eureka handy or an Expositor?

[Evangelion]

Haven't got a clue myself.

[Peter]

Dear Evangelion
I have written a book on the Revelation. I do have an explanation already written down but I am not necessarily convinced by what I wrote. In particular I cannot fathom why the Greek word "stadion" is used.

[Evangelion]

Hi Peter,

I haven't written a book on anything but I am guessing that the word was used simply because it was the standard unit of measurement for that particular context, in the same way that we would use "mile" or "kilometre."

The notes in the NET Bible have this to say:

Louw & Nida 6.7 states, " In Re 14:20 the reference to a bit and bridle is merely an indication of measurement, that is to say, the height of the bit and bridle from the ground, and one may reinterpret this measurement as 'about a meter and a half' or 'about five feet.' "

Grk "1,600 stades." A stade was a measure of length about 607 ft (185 m). Thus the distance here would be 184 mi or 296 km.

It's all symbolic anyway. The verse isn't talking about a literal giant blood slick.

[Peter]

This is what I have in mind:

“blood” = death
“winepress” = God’s judgement
"outside the city" - just like Christ's crucifixion was outside Jerusalem. This city is probably the New Jerusalem - which is inhabited by the believers who are saved by Christ.
“horse’s bridle” = commanders of armies (a horse represents military power and a bridle is used to direct horse, so a bridle represents the commanders of an army)
“from" – The Greek preposition is "apo" meaning from or beyond.
1) it is a distance, where from means beyond ie the blood flows outside of this distance.
2) it is a symbol, in which case it may carry the meaning of a place of combat as stadia were in ancient times.
"stadia”" this could have two possible meanings:
1) it is a distance, where from means beyond ie the blood flows outside of this distance.
2) it is a symbol, in which case it may carry the meaning of a place of combat as stadia were in ancient times.
“1600” - If stadia is taken as a measurement, then 1600 stadia ~ 320 km, and so blood flows beyond the 320 km mark from the winepress which is the seat of judgement. Interestingly this is about the distance the border of Israel will be from Jerusalem in the future age.
-If the number is taken as symbolic, then its meaning is arguable.
It could mean:
i) “perfect/fair judgement” as 1600 = 40^2 where 40 is a number that often has to do with testing and judgement.
ii) Since 1600 = 4 x 40 x 10, it might indicate a complete, universal, and worldwide judgement as there are the “ 4 corners of the world”, 40 represents a period of judgement, and 10 represents many as one.
iii) Or since 1600 = 40 x 40 it might signify the judgement of judgements where the of corresponds to the X just as it does in mathematics.

So then translating it from the symbolic to the literal it would possibly read:
1) God's judgements will result in deaths that even reach to the leaders of armies. These judgements will occur beyond the kingdom of Israel. OR
2)God's judgements will result in deaths that even reach to the leaders of armies on a worldwide scale but will not touch the saints
Either way you get a similar meaning.

[Peter]

Dear Anybody
Please help. I was hoping someone could throw fresh light onto this passage.
Is there anybody with a great new idea?

[Peter]

I seriously am after anyone who has some alternative ideas.

[glimmer]

Originally Posted by Peter

I seriously am after anyone who has some alternative ideas.

Peter, that's a real tough verse. I wish I could help you out, but I'm not convinced about my own interpretation at this point. Give me some time to research it and see what I can come up with.