Convincing people of the truth

[steveyb3]

Hello,

Christadelphians have the absolute minority opinion about the Bible and I believe sometimes it can come across as if it's all a big conspiracy that all the churches are wrong except the Christadelphians. In your experience, what has been the best way of convincing people that their beliefs about the Bible are incorrect and that Christadelphian ones are true?

There are soooooo many Christians out there who don't need convincing that God exists or that the Bible is the Word of God. They are surely the biggest group of fish we can catch, through the grace of God.

[glimmer]

Show them through scripture that the soul is not immortal and the other doctrines will crumble!

[steveyb3]

Thanks Glimmer

The ones that are good for that are. "Adam became a living soul", "The soul that sinneth, it shall die", "The wages of sin is death". Any more anyone can think of?

[BDW]

The fact that "nephesh" is used of animals in Genesis 1. Souls dying is pretty conclusive though.

[steveyb3]

"Nephesh" being the same Hebrew word for "Soul" as used elsewhere?

I think the Trinity is the hardest one to debate. Where do you guys go to for the nature of Christ?

[Bry]

I'd be repeating myself from my posting when I first came to this website in the About Me forum, but I would encourage those with a computer to search Christadelphian websites and read about us.

That way, there is no pressure and they can see for themselves what we believe and practice.

For others I would simply say what I believe and gradually lead them to where I am as a Christadelphian. This is the way I discussed my faith with my neighbour, he was interested to read a copy of the Christadelphian magazine... in his case, he is a Church of Scotland ordained minister (like a CofE vicar) who is setting up churches in the Berlin area in Germany.

I feel that one has to be easy and gentle, using open ended questions to lead them to where we are. Anything else, well, you'll see them zooming off into the wild blue yonder, yelling, "Heretic. Apostasy!" and spitting feathers.

[David]

Had a really good bible class on the pre-existance of Christ, which looked the positive doctrines of Jesus, such as he was concieved in his mother's womb, then he came into existance, and if so he couldn't preexist. Plus the need to get into the Jewish mind rather than the additions of the Greek philosophers, quite a nifty power point.

In one place someonecame on about the John showing the Trinity, and the brothers and sisters there told him top read John and note down, everything about the relationship between God and Jesus in John, he came back later saying that except for a few difficulties John teaches that Jesus is subordinate to God and not his equal.

The problem is getting peopleto read the bible with open eyes. Made even more difficult when people profess as part of the believe to have the holy spirit, or the truth of a "prophet" has been revealed to them by God. Having agreed with some Mormons to try the spirits to see if they are of God, and showing from scripture the contradictions, still because there prophet was from God the scripture must have been some way perverted to contradict him.

Getting past this is the biggest difficulty today with the most committed, and one the other hand the veiw that God is some sort of indulgent uncle figure prevents seeing that God has goodness, but also severity, therefore we become wrong because we preach an exclusive doctrine, that it is not sufficient to say Jesus is Lord, but believe what our Lord says, and change our lives accordingly.

D

[Peter]

I must say I have never had much success with persuading other Christians that we have the correct beliefs.
Adopting a contrary position usually generates debate that often goes nowhere.
For example with Jehovah's witnesses and their ilk even when you have demonstrated that one of their significant beliefs is faulty, they will not budge. However that is very much human nature. We do the same. We have some beliefs about the Holy Spirit which often get shot down in debate but that doesn't stop us from holding tenaciously to our old formula about the Holy Spirit.
It is hard speaking with other Christians when it sounds like all you are trying to say is "I am right; you are wrong". It doesn't tend to go down all that well with them.
I prefer these days to look for common ground to gain people's confidence. (And it is not as if their are not common beliefs eg salvation by grace through faith, resurrection, judgement. These are just a few that we share) If they ask about differences then I will elaborate. I think this comes across far less arrogant.
Nevertheless I think the most fertile ground for Christadelphians are people who have no beliefs at all.

[glimmer]

Originally Posted by Peter

I must say I have never had much success with persuading other Christians that we have the correct beliefs.
Adopting a contrary position usually generates debate that often goes nowhere.For example with Jehovah's witnesses and their ilk even when you have demonstrated that one of their significant beliefs is faulty, they will not budge. However that is very much human nature. We do the same. We have some beliefs about the Holy Spirit which often get shot down in debate but that doesn't stop us from holding tenaciously to our old formula about the Holy Spirit.It is hard speaking with other Christians when it sounds like all you are trying to say is "I am right; you are wrong". It doesn't tend to go down all that well with them.I prefer these days to look for common ground to gain people's confidence. (And it is not as if their are not common beliefs eg salvation by grace through faith, resurrection, judgement. These are just a few that we share) If they ask about differences then I will elaborate. I think this comes across far less arrogant.Nevertheless I think the most fertile ground for Christadelphians are people who have no beliefs at all.

Very well said. I agree 100%.

[dkiversen]

I noticed in yesterday's reading:

1 Peter 3:1-2 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct.

I've found that what often causes other to enquire of our beliefs is wondering why we behave differently. Two examples in my life were fellow students at university wondering why I didn't swear, and colleagues at work asking why I wasn't exaggerating an insurance claim. It's important that we walk the walk, as well as talk the talk, to demonstrate the sincerity of our belief.

But above all we must remember John 6:44
No one can come to [Jesus] unless the Father who sent [Jesus] draws him...

[Insearchof]

dkiversen, AMEN, to your above post.

[steveyb3]

Very true.

Having experienced debating devout Catholics, I agree (perhaps prematurely) that it must be easier to convert people with no religious belief.

[Insearchof]

glimmer, you write - Nevertheless I think the most fertile ground for Christadelphians are people who have no beliefs at all.
In all my life I have never met someone 'who have no beliefs at all.'

[glimmer]

Originally Posted by Insearchof

glimmer, you write - Nevertheless I think the most fertile ground for Christadelphians are people who have no beliefs at all.
In all my life I have never met someone 'who have no beliefs at all.'

Actually, I didn't write that - "Peter" did. I wrote that I agreed with his post.

I believe "Peter" is referring to those people who don't have any strong religious beliefs or church affliliations. Being a former evangelical I can tell you that it took me a MUCH longer time to accept the truth when it was presented to me, because I had to un-learn a lot of the biblical misinterpretations I had been taught. If I had been presented with the truth without any prior biblical knowledge, it would have been much easier to accept.

[steveyb3]

Insearchof, I have met a few people, who "don't believe anything." Those were their exact words.

[Peter]

Glimmer explained it for me well/ And the earlier statement that there are no people without beliefs is true.
Whatever world view you take encompasses a set of beliefs.

[Peter]

Glimmer explained it for me well. And the earlier statement that there are no people without beliefs is true.
Whatever world view you take encompasses a set of beliefs.

[Insearchof]

Even those who say we have no beliefs, have the beleif that they have none.

[Rose Hardy]

Originally Posted by Insearchof

Even those who say we have no beliefs, have the beleif that they have none.

The fool has said "there is no God"